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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2007 : 14:18:44
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John Lennon... 'A Flawed Genius Of The Musical Kind.'
It seems to me, that by far the most popular member of the Beatles is now John Lennon.
Why?...Because he is/was an enigma.
Authors, his family, his fans, his ex wife are still attempting to 'understand' him.
But enigmas, will NEVER be 'understood' or they will cease to BE enigmas.
Any thoughts on John, his character and music... people?
Cxx
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Sgt.Pepper
Wishing And Hoping
Germany
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 18:41:44
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He was a great musician.
A man with lots of mistakes.
A sensitive and rude person.
A king and a jester.
A winner and a loser.
Nothing is real. (John Lennon) |
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Mark
Sweet Inspiration
United Kingdom
2701 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 18:53:53
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Having visited John Lennon's childhood home in Liverpool last year (where he was raised by his beloved Aunt Mimi, but you already know that!)I think his unconventional childhood would have had a long lasting effect on him, being raised by an Aunt instead of his Mother, who was tragically killed running for a Bus after visiting John, he probably found solace in Music, Aunt Mimi also used to let her spare bedroom to students, more influence on young John there.
John was probably a deep 'thinker' more than anything.....luckily for us Beatles fans he met Paul at a local School fete!
So sad his genius was taken away from us 20 odd years later....
Mark |
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Sgt.Pepper
Wishing And Hoping
Germany
142 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 19:02:18
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The "beloved" Aunt Mimi wasn't really an innocent woman. It is said that she had some affairs in her home she called herself "The home of innocence". Very strange.
John was a very shy and sensitive person on the one hand but on the other hand he was rough and loud. Close friends say he this metamorphose to hide himself behind a created "positive John".
I think John's Mom wasn't killed by a bus. I think that a drunken police officer drove the car which killed Julia Lennon. That was 1958. This must be the year were Paul and John met on a festival in Woolton.
Luv, Sgt. Pepper
Nothing is real. (John Lennon) |
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 19:19:01
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Sgt. Pepper, Have you read 'John' by his first wife, Cynthia?
It is a really good read..recommended.
Yes, Julia was killed by a drunken driving Police Officer whilst crossing Menlove Avenue to catch a bus home...Tragic.
Cxx |
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Brian
Something Special
United Kingdom
1873 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 21:22:45
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Although I'm not that keen on The Beatles, John Lennon for me is by far and away the most talented - albiet with NO taste in women! (YOKO? - OH NO!). He made some great 'solo' records, especially Imagine & Just like starting over. My favourite period of his was when he was produced by Phil Spector...now THAT would have been a recording session to be at!
Brian. |
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Lindakron
Sweet Inspiration
Canada
2672 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 21:28:22
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It's been suggested that John's defiance of authority has a lot to do with the fact that the police officer wasn't held responsible. Prior to that, he was already rebellious, but I think that was the last straw for him. I think it is so interesting that his defiance was, however, in defense of justice and truth, and he carefully planned his challenge of authority. He was brilliant, creative and eloquent. And I think many people just brushed off his pursuit of peace as either boredom or publicity or madness, because he thought outside the box.
The lyrics, in my opinion, often overshadow the music. I don't really even feel competent to discuss the production side of John's records, because I get absorbed in the words.
Ray Coleman's biography, called "Lennon" was an excellent read, too.
I have a feeling that John's popularity is increasing because of the controversial war in Iraq, which is reminiscent (at least, in the American psyche) of Vietnam, which John was so passionately opposed to.
~Linda~ |
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 21:57:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Lindakron
I have a feeling that John's popularity is increasing because of the controversial war in Iraq, which is reminiscent (at least, in the American psyche) of Vietnam, which John was so passionately opposed to.
~Linda~
Agreed Linda.
Give this video a chance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-NRriHlLUk
Says it all, really.
Cxx
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Lindakron
Sweet Inspiration
Canada
2672 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2007 : 22:07:36
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Oh, wow, Carole. That brought tears to my eyes. Ironically, that footage of John and Yoko's bed-in was filmed in 1969, but that violent footage from Kent State College didn't happen until spring, 1970. There was much more to come.
And on a more trivial note, the percussion section included, among other things, someone banging their foot on the door. lol Love that raw recording.
~Linda~ |
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Sgt.Pepper
Wishing And Hoping
Germany
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 10:30:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Carole R.
Sgt. Pepper, Have you read 'John' by his first wife, Cynthia?
Yes, I read it last year. Wonderful book. I read some new details but also details I really did not like to read.
I like the style of Cyn's words. She's great.
I must say that I really dislike this bed-ins. I don't watch the videos or listen to the music John made in the hotel rooms. That's too weird and crazy for me.
Some years before when John played in the Cavern in Liverpool and wasn't popular with the Fabs he made bad jokes about disabled people on the stage. And in the days of "love and peace" he changed his opinion. Sometimes I really do not understand him.
Luv, Sgt. Pepper
Nothing is real. (John Lennon) |
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Sgt.Pepper
Wishing And Hoping
Germany
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 10:35:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian
Although I'm not that keen on The Beatles, John Lennon for me is by far and away the most talented - albiet with NO taste in women! (YOKO? - OH NO!). He made some great 'solo' records, especially Imagine & Just like starting over. My favourite period of his was when he was produced by Phil Spector...now THAT would have been a recording session to be at!
"With no taste in women" - what a great statement folks! I like it, Brian! 
Phil Spector was also the producer of the album "Let It Be". Maybe this was almost the greatest mistake the Beatles made in their career. This album isn't so great when I remember albums like "With The Beatles", "Revolver" oder "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". George Martin was and (of course!) is an excellent producer.
Have you heard the "new" Beatles album "LOVE"? It's fine!
Luv, Sgt. Pepper
Nothing is real. (John Lennon) |
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treking
Wasn't Born To Follow
United Kingdom
5586 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 12:22:54
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I heard the "new " Love album and I like it. I think its an interesting listen.
Lennon was certainly a complex person . Shy yet very rude and loud at times.
I think Yoko was the worst thing that could have happened to him, but he was certainly obsessed by her.
She really was responsible for the break up of the Beatles.
Trek
We are here for Dusty. |
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David
Wishing And Hoping
USA
694 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 13:14:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Sgt.Pepper
Phil Spector was also the producer of the album "Let It Be". Maybe this was almost the greatest mistake the Beatles made in their career. This album isn't so great when I remember albums like "With The Beatles", "Revolver" oder "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band".
I know a lot of people, even The Beatles themselves, criticize Let it Be. I've never understood this. I love it!
Dustily yours, Astro |
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Sgt.Pepper
Wishing And Hoping
Germany
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2007 : 14:36:30
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"Let It Be" is no bad album. I did not say this. But it was made in a little strange way. The Rooftop Concert was in that time, so they put some songs onto the album. To me it seems as if it was one of the last cries of the group to make an album but noone had time to do something good.
This "thing" with Yoko: I also say that she was the worst thing in John's life. But he did not recognize it or maybe too late. I still remember some bad sentences he said to his first son and maybe because of this Julian is still today not really a happy person. Sometimes Yoko tries to let the fans forget that John had a first wife and also a first son. That's unfair!
When John ran around with May Pang (she was the secretary of Yoko Ono who was told by Yoko herself to hang around with him!) his life was much more easier. He called Julian on the phone, he made smalltalk with Cyn and when Yoko was around again he hid again.
My opinion is that she is on of the main reasons why the Beatles had their break-up and why they treated each other so mean. She caught John and the other boys were really jealous because their boss did not want to go on with the group. I can understand that very well.
Paul was John's friend since they met in Woolton when they were teenagers and I think he was upset when John was so mean to him and to the rest of the group.
Oh my god you must think that I hate him or something else.
For me John Lennon is still a wonderful musician who talked with his music and beautiful lyrics. He was a real poet. He told the truth and a lot of people knew his special type of humour and rude words. That's ok.
Luv, Sgt. Pepper
Nothing is real. (John Lennon) |
Edited by - Sgt.Pepper on 10/03/2007 14:37:13 |
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treking
Wasn't Born To Follow
United Kingdom
5586 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 08:34:20
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There was an interesting article in the paper on Saturday saying that the 2 Lennon sons Julian and Sean had been meeting up and getting on well in defiance of Yoko.A warm and genuine friendship has blossomed.
It also discussed how shabbily Julian was treated by John once he met Yoko. He seemed to completly ignore him.
Lennon was more than a bit of a hypocrite really---giving peace a chance yet ignoring his son.
Both seem to have carried lots of emotional problems into their adult lives, but maybe they can now help one another.
Sean is now 31, overweight with a rough beard--he is a long way from being the Beautiful Boy of John's song.
Julian is pure John with the same nose, colouring. He is now 43.
He has fought drugs and depression and has twice quite the music business but is now back songwriting living in Italy.
Sean is performing with his band in obscure venues trying for recognition as a musician in his own right.
Its interesting that Sean should turn to Julian during this period that he is trying to prove himself.
The article goes on to say that no one can serve as a better guide to the uniquely painful experience of living in John's shadow and by turning to Julian, Sean is finally and in some small way rebelling against his mother.
Yoko refused to let Julian have any mementoes of his father and did not make any financial settlement on Julian until 16 years after John's death.
It was after some prodding from Cynthia last year that Julian and Sean spent time getting to know one another.
Trek
We are here for Dusty. |
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Sgt.Pepper
Wishing And Hoping
Germany
142 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2007 : 18:48:38
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quote:
Originally posted by treking
It also discussed how shabbily Julian was treated by John once he met Yoko. He seemed to completly ignore him.
Lennon was more than a bit of a hypocrite really---giving peace a chance yet ignoring his son.
That's the point I really hate to read.
John recognized that he had a son called Julian very, very late. Maybe 1979. He invited Julian and was really amazed how well-grown he was when he talked to his father. You know, but it was too late, because John's life ended one year later. There wasn't the so called great relationship between father and son. But it is the same in Sean's case. Julian and Sean did not have a father they could turn to. But this you can't blame John for.
When Julian was born he was starting his career with the Beatles and had not enough time (even Cynthia understands this very well) and when John had Sean he was killed some years later.
John left Julian when he was 5 and John left Sean finally when he was also 5 years old. What a mystic situation!
I think Yoko tries everything to hurt Julian and the "old" Lennon family. John had also a sister called Julia. She likes John although she has never known him too much in person. Noone of the "old" Lennon family likes Yoko for real.
If John had known before what came after his death he would have been very upset in his last years. That's my opinion.
Even he, so I think, wanted that everybody of his family is treated in the right way. He bought houses for his family when he was a young man. But Yoko keeps all the things John made and bought for other people. What a stupid situation?!
I really dislike her and I think I should never keep this for me.
Luv, Sgt. Pepper
Nothing is real. (John Lennon) |
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furtivenudist
Wishing And Hoping
182 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 09:55:56
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After the Beatles broke up, none of the ex-Beatles did anything fantastic - it's as if they really needed each other musically and they really needed George Martin.
When John wrote "Help" it was a ballad and George Martin insisted he speed it up. When he went on his own, all his songs dragged like molasses. "Imagine" is pretty, but a dirge - imagine what the Beatles could have done with it.
Yes, Yoko really buggered things up, but then John picked this surly little troll and pretty much did nothing. If you read the accounts of his life at the Dakota, it seems he was clinically depressed.
But we should be grateful we had the Beatles.
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 12:42:29
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Getting all 'psychological' it was thought that John thought of Yoko as his Mother, substitute.
He DID actually call her 'Mother' alot of the time.
No -one knows what attracts one person to another, but say what we like, Yoko had SOMETHING that John needed, at that time.
Carole R xx |
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Sgt.Pepper
Wishing And Hoping
Germany
142 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 14:08:33
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quote:
Originally posted by furtivenudist
If you read the accounts of his life at the Dakota, it seems he was clinically depressed.
You're absolutely right!
John felt like the bird in a closed cage.
Outside fans who wanted to talk to him, autographs, photographs and something else and inside was nothing to do. Very heavy situation for that man!
That's the reason why I say that he was also very poor in life although he was a rich man.
But, yes, what a great feeling to have had such a wonderful band which influenced the music on a high level!
Luv, Sgt. Pepper
Nothing is real. (John Lennon) |
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 20:29:08
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John was bored of The Beatles Bandwagon by 1965.
The words that he wrote to'Help' reflect this boredom.
Therefore it is my contention that whether Yoko had come along or not, The Beatles would have split, by the end of The Sixties...
Cxx |
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Sgt.Pepper
Wishing And Hoping
Germany
142 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2007 : 16:10:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Carole R.
Therefore it is my contention that whether Yoko had come along or not, The Beatles would have split, by the end of The Sixties...
The problem is that you can only suggest if it happened. We do not know clearly.
Ok, sometimes there were lots of problems amd stress in the band in the mid of the Sixties but sometimes John was the rolling stone in those situations. He wasn't satisfied with his life and had to pull this out of his body.
Just listen to "Good Morning, Good Morning" from the "Sgt. Pepper" album - that's Lennonism at its best! A bored little John in a world furnished with boring things.
Luv, Sgt. Pepper
Nothing is real. (John Lennon) |
Edited by - Sgt.Pepper on 15/03/2007 16:11:36 |
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