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Katariina
Wishing And Hoping
Finland
637 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2007 : 05:05:43
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I could never stand those lyrics, but I can get Janies´point - they were relevant at those days. And there are many people who would change everything they are to get something; another person, money, fame... sad but true.
Love, Kat |
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furtivenudist
Wishing And Hoping
182 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 06:58:14
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Dusty herself said she never paid any attention to lyrics.
I have "Wishin' and Hopin'" in German...
Serge Gainsbourg recorded a notorious album, beautiful, lush, romantic French songs. He hired a crack team of British musicians to record it - they had no idea what he was singing about, but it was so pretty. Guys in England and America would play it for their girlfriends to seduce them.
Well, it was an album about bodily functions - accidents during anal sex, an onset of flatulence during lovemaking etc etc.
Now that we know, does it make the music any less pretty? |
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Janie
Administrator
United Kingdom
5971 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 07:52:40
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There is always a certain charm in the way you describe/explain things furtivenudist!  
Janie  x53 |
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Lindakron
Sweet Inspiration
Canada
2672 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 12:23:02
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quote:
Originally posted by furtivenudist
Dusty herself said she never paid any attention to lyrics.
I have "Wishin' and Hopin'" in German...
Serge Gainsbourg recorded a notorious album, beautiful, lush, romantic French songs. He hired a crack team of British musicians to record it - they had no idea what he was singing about, but it was so pretty. Guys in England and America would play it for their girlfriends to seduce them.
Well, it was an album about bodily functions - accidents during anal sex, an onset of flatulence during lovemaking etc etc.
Now that we know, does it make the music any less pretty?
Oh good lord!!   That is so funny!
It really is interesting how some people are more attentive to the lyric than others. For me, a bad lyric can distract the beauty of the song. Maybe that's because I love written/spoken word and I think words can be powerful. Now, if it was in another language, I could fully appreciate the music, arrangement, instrumentation, vocals...
Come to think of it, I think I would probably love "Wishin' and Hopin'" if I only heard it in German, without understanding the words. 
~Linda~ |
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treking
Wasn't Born To Follow
United Kingdom
5586 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2007 : 14:24:01
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In Italian on the Continental Dusty CD Wishin' and Hopin' is Stupido, Stupido! Which sums up the lyrics really!
I can throughly recommend this CD by the way for those of you who don't have it.
It can be bought via the DS bulletin.
Trek
We are here for Dusty. |
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Pablito
Wishing And Hoping
Ireland
465 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2007 : 20:48:33
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"Wishin' and Hopin'" always reminds me (lyrically) of another Bacharach/David song ie. "Wives & Lovers" - which I think is marginally more offensive than "Wishing & Hoping". The line in "Wives & Lovers" that goes like this.....
......"don't send him off with your hair still in curlers, you may not see him again..."
.. it makes me laugh, and I wonder if the lyrics are meant to be slightly tongue in cheek?? They are both great songs melodically and the lyrics do make them interesting as a mark of how much (some) societies have changed.
But.. I'm just thinking now about all those 'r'n'b'/'urban' artists who's songs are all about women ..'shakin' their booty' etc etc (and the videos that accompany the songs) - which I think are more demeaning to women.
Just a male point of view
Paul. |
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Janie
Administrator
United Kingdom
5971 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2007 : 21:57:49
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The key to all of this is how, throughout social history, certain gender specific roles have become almost 'stuck' in the psyche of women. How to please your man.....answers on a postcard.
I'm not sure Paul that those lyrics were said tongue in cheek - look at how the traditional marriage ceremony places women in a position of subservience. Indeed, there are lots of examples throughout many, many cultures and religions which suggest the validity of such a hierarchy.
I think we should get Germaine Greer in on this one.
Janie x53 |
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2007 : 23:10:06
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I'm glad you reminded me of that one, Paul.
I've ALWAYS hated that song 'Wives and Lovers' its FAR worse than Wishin and Hopin, in my view.
There used to be a singer years ago, called Jack Jones who sang THAT song EVERY time I ever saw him.
Abit like Ms. Streisand ALWAYS sang the dreaded 'People'...
What WAS Hal David thinking when he wrote those crass lyrics?...
......"don't send him off with your hair still in curlers, you may not see him again..."
Sad, sad, sad.
Carole R.
By the way, Dusty sang 'Wives And Lovers' on one of her shows...thru gritted teeth, I hope! |
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Sara
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
9066 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2007 : 23:18:46
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It's a good tune though
I agree that some of these rap or r'n'b "songs" are just as bad, actually, no they are worse, they don't even have a tune!
Sara x |
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2007 : 23:31:39
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But.. I'm just thinking now about all those 'r'n'b'/'urban' artists who's songs are all about women ..'shakin' their booty' etc etc (and the videos that accompany the songs) - which I think are more demeaning to women.
Whilst you are correct, Paul.
I think some of the women themselves are more demeaning to women!!
Again, at the time of the Feminist Movement (of which I WASN'T a Member, by the way)..but DID agree with, mostly.
They were always going on about Beauty Contests etc being demeaning, due to the fact that those women were judged solely on their looks and nothing else.
They objected to the Contestants wearing revealing costumes etc...
Now, we have female pop stars writhing around, wearing hardly any clothes at all!..
What price Feminism now??!
Cxx |
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TMAK
Wasn't Born To Follow
USA
5126 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2007 : 23:41:46
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For those of you who weren't around during the great "feminist consciousness raising" movement of the late 60s and early 70s, it might be difficult to understand that that sexist drivel written by ole Hal and Bert was probably considered sage advice back then. Men and MANY women saw NOTHING amiss with those lyrics. That was just the way it was. Phyllis Schlafley and her "perfect little housewife Total Woman" clones ate that stuff up!
Can you understand how freeing it felt, as a teenager, to suddenly find all those "loud mouth, uppity, brazen (aka BRAVE)" women coming forward and saying "Oh, HELL NO!! to that line of thought - in SO many areas of our lives? It was okay NOT to feel that way and still feel okay about yourself. Radical idea, 'ey?
God bless Betty Friedan, Germaine Greer, Billie Jean King and the rest of them.
T |
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 00:00:56
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Little did Linda know what she was gonna start here, T!...
A very interesting discussion..
What d'ya think about the whole Feminism thing now?
I guess its got equal prize money on the tennis circuits... anything else?
Cxx |
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TMAK
Wasn't Born To Follow
USA
5126 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 00:18:53
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So much has changed for the better. I think younger women have no idea because they take so much for granted. They don't find it unusual to find a woman in a "man's job" -they don't think of some of them as "men's jobs" any longer. There are so many choices now that weren't even thinkable when I was in high school.
I remember a young woman speaking in 1970. She was a graduate from a prestigious university and a successful professional. Her sister dropped out of college to get married. Yet her mother always made her feel that she was less in her eyes because she wasn't married yet. How sad was that?
When I went into the Navy in 73, I only saw ONE female Chief Petty Officer - that was in basic training. They were few and far between after that. When I was promoted to Chief, in 1983, I didn't personally know any other female chiefs. I stood out like a sore thumb on the training base in San Diego where I was an instructor and a company commander. I figured those kids that I came in contact with were gonna remember me, so I made sure that I was "Super Chief" at all times. In the following years, there were many more enlisted women promoted to the Chief Petty Officer ranks. No big deal anymore.
T |
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TMAK
Wasn't Born To Follow
USA
5126 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 00:43:51
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Oh, and "Wives & Lovers" probably was an inspiration for the movie "The Stepford Wives" - the original and the unfortunate 2004 remake. The robotic "new and improved" wives were a bit over the top, but not THAT much over the top compared to the Donna Reed - June Cleaver perfect wife TV images offered up in the 50s.
T |
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kari johanne
Brand New Me
Norway
16 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 16:33:47
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About the lyrics of Wishin'and hopin'...
I'm curious to know what Dusty actually sings at the RAH concert, when she changes the lyrics. It sounds very funny, but I just can't hear what she is singing....
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 21:01:21
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I know that you are right Kari.. But I'll have to get back to you on this one.
Can anyone help out?
Cxx |
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TMAK
Wasn't Born To Follow
USA
5126 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2007 : 22:02:47
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Not sure if the words are changed on RAH, but I know on the bootleg copy of the Drury Lane concert, I can hear her change the pronoun in the last line of this song - by mistake, of course!
T |
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sparkie
Wishing And Hoping
United Kingdom
524 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2007 : 00:44:41
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At the beginning of the song after she says "This is a joke song" and sings the line "Plannin' and dreamin' each night of his charms..." she then says "His or Her I don't give a damn"... then it sounds like she just has a wee hiccup over a couple of words before getting back into the correct lyrics!!!
"I wander the streets and the gay crowded places..." |
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Carole R.
Higher and Higher
United Kingdom
13245 Posts |
Posted - 15/03/2007 : 12:51:01
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Thanks for that, Sparkie!..
Cxx |
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kari johanne
Brand New Me
Norway
16 Posts |
Posted - 16/03/2007 : 09:58:30
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Thank you, Sparkie:-)
Kari |
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